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| Baby New Year and Father Time. |
Like many of my countrymen, I was preparing to celebrate the Saturnalia, a weeklong feast in homage to Saturn, the father of our great god Jupiter. My children were particularly looking forward to the school holiday, and I had procured a few gifts for them, as is the tradition. Myself? I was more eager to gamble a bit, as the ban on such wagers is lifted during the holiday.
On my journey, I came upon a man I did not recognize. I greeted him with the customary, "Io, Saturnalia!" but he grew indignant with me and said he would not be sacrificing to Saturn this season. No, he would not be sacrificing at all, but rather he would be paying homage to the birth of his savior, whom he called Chrestus.
"So," I joked with him, "you have taken the Saturn out of Saturnalia?"
But he just scoffed at me and went on his way. I could not help but think to myself that it was his loss. This Chrestus of his seemed like something of a killjoy.
*****************
Fast forward to the year 2764 A.U.C. - today, that is. The annual debate over how to greet someone on the streets is in full swing once again, except now, the shoe is on the other foot (which makes foot-in-mouth syndrome a little more painful).
The followers of Chrestus are in the majority these days, and very few people celebrate the Saturnalia anymore. The only consolation for the poor, neglected Saturn is that his image - that of an aged man with a flowing white beard - lives on in the form of a jolly old "elf" by the name of Santa. Quite a comedown for the father of Jupiter, but I suppose it's better than nothing. At least he still has a day and a planet named after him.
Instead of joking about taking the Saturn out of Saturnalia, however, many Christians are grousing about others taking the Christ out of Christmas, as their holy day has come to be called. Some of them have even compiled a Naughty or Nice list of retailers who who don't (naughty) and do (nice) make liberal use of the term "Christmas" in their advertising and store displays. It's hard to overlook the irony that the very phrase "naughty or nice" is associated not with Christ but with Saturn ... er ... Santa.
U.S. bishops have issued the following guidelines for receiving the Eucharist: "Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Communion."
So Christmas - at least by that name - isn't a Protestant holiday at all. It's a Catholic one. It seems just a bit peculiar that Protestants, who have fought wars with Catholics over other seemingly trivial issues, should so readily accept - and so eagerly defend - a Catholic holy day! Shouldn't they call it "Christbirth" or some such?
Enter Old Man Winter, who was known to the Romans as our friend Saturn and to the Greeks before them as Cronos - or "Father Time." Cronos was the father of Zeus, and his name literally meant "time."* It's preserved at the root of our modern words chronology and chronicles. To us, he's Santa Claus. Each year he gives way to the Baby New Year, who bears a remarkable similarity to Christ. That's why Santa and Christ belong together. It would be unseemly to greet a new solar year without saying a proper goodbye to the old.
Different people celebrate this season in different ways. It all depends on one's perspective. And that's exactly the point - yes, I'm finally getting to it - of this article. Those who insist that "Merry Christmas" is the only proper greeting for this holiday wouldn't have enjoyed being on the other end of the stick back when the Saturnalia was all the rage. I'd wager they wouldn't have been particularly comfortable with all the "Io, Saturnalia!" greetings going around. In the same way, Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Hindus, Buddhists and others might not care too much about being wished a merry Christmas.
This is especially true for Jews and many Pagans, both of whom celebrate their own sacred days - Hanukkah and Yule, respectively - at this time of year.
If you think about it, it's absurd. It's like an American wishing everyone in Beijing a happy Fourth of July. It's like telling someone who doesn't like football to "enjoy the Super Bowl!" Or buying a litter box for someone who doesn't own a cat. Such salutations are superfluous at best, insulting at worst. So why should we think wishing a Jew "Merry Christmas" is any different?
When it comes right down to it, shouldn't our wishes be determined by the other person's tradition? Should we go around saying "Io, Saturnalia!" to Christians or "Happy Hanukkah" to Buddhists? Or wouldn't it be better to honor the traditions of others, just as we'd like them to honor ours? When it comes down to it, that's pretty much what the Golden Rule is all about. And that's something at least Christians should be able to live with.
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* Editor's note: Cronos is traditionally depicted as carrying a scythe or sickle, much like the grim reaper. In Greek mythology, this referred to the fact that he had castrated his father in order to claim the throne of the gods. This probably explains why Santa carries around a bag of toys rather than a sickle. The moral of the story: Children shouldn't play with sharp objects.






The proper expression is "Io Saturnalia", beginning with a capital I as in India, and sounds like Yo.
ReplyDeleteI am a Catholic and for hundreds of years it' has been Christmas. Therefore we have Christmas trees and say Merry Christmas. Even though Christ was probably born sometime in March, we celebrate His birth on December 25th. I will always say Merry Christmas. It's not an insult to you. If you're Jewish and I know it, I will warmly wish you a happy Hannukah. Same with if you are pagan and I know it -- a warm happy Yule. Otherwise I say Merry Christmas. Because that IS who I am. I am NOT going to stop. Sue me if you don't freaking like it. I glady accept sincere greetings of happy yule from practicing pagans or a Jewish greeting from a practicing Jew. But I laugh at the pagans who have decided to denounce whatever faith they are born with but not study their paganism and think they're so damn cool because they don't believe in God anymore. I completely respect anyone who changes their path because they have studied all options and chosen and LEARNED their new one. But I will never respect anyone who is insulted because a person chooses to wish other people Merry Christmas because that is THEIR path. Maybe they should defy ignorance. And learn tolerance.
ReplyDeleteSeriously Rosie? Wow. It isn't usually obvious what another's faith is, so why not be neutral?
ReplyDeleteI have been a follower of a pagan faith since I was 7. And frankly, I could give a crap whether you say Merry Christmas, happy Hannaukah(sp ), merry Yule or happy peanut butter day. But I am going go say "Happy Holidays" so as not to be seen as arrogant and presumptuous. And if you are so hung up on yourself as to be freaking offended by a pleasant greeting, well I guess there really is no help for you.
I feel a kindness between strangers should be accepted and cherished, not egotistically taken as an insult because I missed the tattoo on your forehead or the charm hanging around your neck.
The Pagan greeting is:
ReplyDeleteWelcome Yule
meaning:
"May all things Well and good Come to you and yours at this Season of Yule and in all the days that shall follow."
Dear Rosie, anyone starting on a new religious path does so with emotional enthusiasm. Often the learning comes later. One doesn't expect a Christian to know every aspect of their religious beliefs, and people accept that Christians believe out of faith rather than logic or book learning. Well, sometimes Pagans and others converting to new religions, deserve that respect too.
ReplyDeleteI don't get offended when people tell me Merry Christmas, but I do remind them that, ya know, not everyone celebrates Christmas, and neither do I. So go ahead and say it. Communication requires both a speaker and a listener, but if you want to just talk, and don't care if someone else takes out of it what you mean...that's fine too. A Merry Christmas to you. For myself, a Happy Solstice would be more appreciated, thanks. May your God bless you, and in mine we say "blessed be".
I prefer *Happy Christmas* myself. But hey, these little differences make life interesting. ;)
ReplyDeleteVJB -- I'm not offended by a pagan wishing me a happy Yule and would love to hear what Arawyn said IF it's sincere. I wish people a Merry Christmas because that is my chose path even though I was born to it. And you being a pagan since you were 7 makes you pretty knowledgeable (ok, too tired to spell. LOL!!) and I would much rather you wish me a happy yule than try to be politically correct. I welcome sincere greetings. What makes you think I don't? I said that before. But happy holidays is patronizing to me. Also -- Jewish holidays don't fall on December 25. December 25 is Christmas and it is Yule. Not sure if there are any others exactly on the 25th like ours. And Yule is as real to you as Christmas is to me. Why would I want to take that away from you or you take mine away from me? So you would greet me in yours and I in mine. Certainly no insult intended and neither of us are trying to convert the other. I respect you for you beliefs. I have many pagan friends. They always say happy yule and I say Merry Christmas. Why is that wrong?
ReplyDeleteGivemathimble -- Happy Solstice to you then and thank you for wishing me a Merry Christmas. But isn't Solstice December 22nd this year and June 20, 2012? I thought we were talking about December 25 which is why I would say Merry Christmas unless I knew for sure you celebrate Yule
ReplyDeleteTo Steve Provost,
ReplyDeleteI disagree with your comment on that Santa is really Saturn. Saturn turned eventually to Old Man Time. Santa is actually Saint Nicholas who was a Turkish man who cared for and helped children. Thus, he is the patron saint of children. Also, if a man was walking down the Appian Way in Imperial Roman times and said that he believed in "Christos", he is Greek! Christos is the Greek term for Messiah, which many early Christians believed that to be Jesus of Nazareth. If he was a Greek man, what in the world is he doing outside by himself?! He most likely would have been put into an household either as a slave or he would be a second class citizen or no citizen at all. If he was a Roman male citizen and a Christian, he would have said "Christus" since that is the proper Latin term for Jesus at that time.
Also, Rosie,
ReplyDeleteI believe the Winter Solstice is Yule, so technically December 25th is Christmas and December 21/22 is Yule.
Not to gang up on you, Rosie dear, but while it's all well and good to explain that you mean well when you say "merry Christmas," you counter your own message by incorrectly stating that you believe pagans no longer believe in God. In fact,we believe in MANY gods, and some of us acknowledge the Catholic divinities in our own pantheons. I myself learned mercy from Mary, because she was the aspect of the Divine who answered when I asked for mercy. Now, I was raised a pagan, my best friend is a Catholic, and she's never gone on the kind of tirade that you've exhibited here. We wish each
ReplyDeleteother greetings in our own ways and neither of us is
offended when the other jokes about our faith. In all actuality, Catholicism and several forms of paganism bear a
striking resemblance because of what they have borrowed
from one another. So do what you do, but recall as well that
your Christ was a good and TOLERANT man while he was
on this earth, and If you truly wish to follow him, then you
would do well to foster Understanding rather than take offense to a good-natured examination of a simple issue. Peace.
thoroughly enjoyed the article and comments :)
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rosie, If I know the other persons religion I will wish them that. If not I wish a Merry Yule.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in business it is often better manners to wish someone (and these are usually business contacts, so a bit different) "Season's Greetings" or "Wishes of a wonderful holiday" or some such.
Frankly, I always assume that the holiday greeting given to me is meant with honest intent. So, I don't get hung up about it.
Cheers
Wow. Lots of comments, half correcting the article and half arguing back and forth. Cool!
ReplyDeleteI love Jesus and I have been Catholic, Evangelist, Apostolics Pentecostal etc..and if I am correct the Lord gave us "Free Will", and I respect that because the Lord says so we should and we should pray not insult those that we think need the Lord. Because of this "Free Will", I only talk to those who ask or I ask and they say so in their own words. Nevertheless if they say Merry Christmas to me I will answer back the same and if some one says Happy Holidays to me I will do the same but I will never force anybody into something they do not want or accept unless they agree to. Peace and Love to all.
ReplyDeleteAnd so we learn.... that even amidst the divisions that are caused by language barriers.... it truly is"love", that conquers all. For some, this does indeed prove to be quite a challenging test.
ReplyDeleteI actually really dislike being wished a merry Christmas. There's nothing like being treated like a minority in public by a stranger. Maybe that's the reason the commenters on this post who say it refuse to stop. They know there are more of them than there are people of other faiths. There's no reason for them to accommodate other holidays because there's is the important one. I apologize for my condescending tone, but I've worked in retail for years and often encounter people at work who antagonize me and my coworkers about wishing it back to them. I'm not exaggerating. Direct eye contact, emphasized enunciation, sometimes they even repeat it. I think they expect that companies tell their employees they aren't allowed to say it, as if everyone wants to. I don't appreciate being badgered into honoring someone else's holiday when it means very little to me and how I disagree with it so much. Needless to say, it's season's greeting from me and it always will be.
ReplyDeleteBeing badgered into honoring someone elses holiday's is rather like being forced to agree to their political views. It's just plain wrong. I agree that everyone has the choice of their belief systems, whatever makes their souls sing and their hearts follow etc..but when it comes to the holidays One should respect the other person next to you and not push your views into their lap like spilled hot gravy. While I follow the pagan views because having more than one god/goddess makes my heart/soul sing..not everyone else has that same feeling. So with Yule/Saturnalia/Christmas/Kwanza/Hanaka etc...I smile and say Blessed be your holy days, and may happiness and good health follow you and yours... But then sometimes I don't even have to do anything other than just give them a smile that also reaches my eyes...and say Thank you..
ReplyDeleteYou don't really have to say it back to them, Just acknowledge their greeting with a real smile and Thank you...Politeness...it's a superpower all in itself...And maybe...the person being so pushy will realize that they are being just that...and back off a little. Because someone acknowledged their christmas greeting with a smile and thank you. Because we all sometimes go about our day so self absorbed that we take no notice of the others around us, and for five minutes of our time this christmas season, Yuletide, Kwanza, Hanaka..etc...we can look up...Look back into the eyes of our coworkers...as they push themselves into our personal space...acknowledge their holiday and say thank you as they try to include us in their lives...Politeness after all is a superpower all on its own.
On November 22, I posted this to my FaceBook page, imaging my joyous surprise that my biggest defender was a Lutheran Lay Minister :
ReplyDeleteNot to offend anyone, but this is what I believe. I am sick and tired of every year when CHRISTMAS comes around, there are people who want to insist CHRIST is the only reason for the season; Not caring if it might offend someone. Well, dear CHRISTIANS, News Flash!! It is not all about you. No-one is taking your CHRIST out of you CHRISTMAS !!!!! But We Are Standing Up For Our Own Beliefs!!! If you aren't celebrating CHRIST then why are you celebrating? You ask??? NEWS FLASH #2; There are at least Five YES, FIVE gift giving Holidays For Five DIFFERENT Religions that all take place during the month of December. Your CHRISTMAS is NOT the only holiday in December. Stop Being Elitist, and learn to accept that HAPPY HOLIDAYS Translates to people saying “No matter what you believe, may Your HOLY DAY be happy for you.”Christmas is one of the few holidays that is all about Christ you say???” That may be true, But it is not our fault that way back in the 4th century your early roman catholic church moved Christ's birthday to December in an effort to wipe out other beliefs. HOWEVER, If You Really Believed in his actual teachings and not the propaganda of various churches that teach a lack of tolerance; Then you would know that your attitude about his relocated birthday would depress him. He Celebrated Chanukah after all. And taught respect for others. Say Happy Holidays if you really follow the path of Christ's teachings Don't force your beliefs onto others. He NEVER called for his followers to Force Others! Repost if you have an open heart that can hear and LIVE his truest message.
I see too many people commenting in a confrontational manner. The greeting "Happy Holidays" seems to be the most passive way of giving or recieving a greeting for the holidays and shows "respect" for people of the many faiths and belief systems that we have here on this planet. You don't lose anything by being polite and taking the greeting as a show of respect as the person who is giving you this salutation is trying NOT to insult you by giving you a Christian greeting when you may be a Jew or a Pagan or Muslim. People are way too confrontational in todays age, if we all exhibit tolerance for one another then maybe we can all start to understand each other better, isn't that what most great spiritual teachers were trying to get us to do?
ReplyDeleteI'm an atheist, but I don't get my panties in a wad when someone wishes me a Merry Christmas. It's a season of goodwill towards men, and as long as people are sincere in their happy wishes, no biggie. When people get upset that I say Happy Holidays (to include all the holidays people celebrate) is when I get ticked. Be kind, take others good will, and have a nice December filled with love, family and friends!
ReplyDeleteI miss the days back when saying "Merry Christmas" really was an expression of good will, and not a politic-religious stand taken by the thin-skinned and the indignant. So, "peace and good will" may have to suffice for now. I was going to go with Happy Holidays, because that's so fitting, I think, even if all you celebrate is the world stopping the capitalist treadmill for one quiet morning near the end of December. But, it seems people don't like that either.
ReplyDeleteAnyone have a problem with "peace and good will"?
SS
I tend to say "season's greetings!"
ReplyDeleteAs not everyone celebrates Yule as I do, and some people don't have a holy-day / holiday to celebrate, but everyone can appreciate the turning of the seasons. :)
I raised the point at a recent work meeting that not everyone celebrates Christmas and it was very well received. I mentioned that years ago I had a boss who informed our team that "Anyone who doesn't celebrate Christmas shouldn't be allowed to live in America." I'm very glad to say that my coworkers were mortified by that comment and discussed ways to avoid offending those who don't celebrate Christmas.
ReplyDeleteRosie Said: "But I laugh at the pagans who have decided to denounce whatever faith they are born with but not study their paganism and think they're so damn cool because they don't believe in God anymore. I completely respect anyone who changes their path because they have studied all options and chosen and LEARNED their new one."
ReplyDeleteNot to put too fine of a point on it, but even if you were BORN into Christianity, you still had to LEARN what it meant as you grew up and as you studied. You weren't born with immense knowledge of the path you were going to follow. You needed to be taught the ends and outs -- just like any other spiritual person. You say that you laugh at the ones who chose to partake on a new path and learn all about it.
Not very Christianly or Godly of you no matter what the holiday or the topic of discussion.
I am Pagan (preferably with a capital "P" since it is a valid spiritual path, encompassing a wide variety of religions in which - yes - we believe in God/dess, though there are Atheistic Pagan paths).
ReplyDeleteI also grew up Pagan. Now, I'm not sure what this idea about growing up in one religion, then realizing it does not serve one spiritually and changing to another, has to do with this particular post.
It seems to me that the point of this post is quite simple: this is a diverse world and saying "Happy Holidays" is not meant to be an affront to those who get all up in arms over Christmas. Rather, it is meant to be an inclusive statement of well-wishing for the holiday season. Christmas is not the only holiday in December, though many people would like to blind themselves to that fact (just as they would like to conveniently forget the Pagan spiritual heritage of Christianity).
What is being said in this post seems simple enough. I don't mind if somebody wants to say "Merry Christmas" to me, but if they want to throw a hissy fit merely because I choose "Happy Holidays" as my greeting of choice, that is their problem - not mine.
@ Reborninfire -- I have a problem getting what I am thinking, into writing so it's not taken wrong. I certainly wasn't putting anyone down, especially newborn pagans. I guess I should have explained better -- I see too many rebellious teens wearing pentacles and acting all 'cool' and putting down all faiths but pagan. I want to take them and shake them and tell them they aren't pagan because they're wearing goth cloths and denoucing their parents' church. They need to study paganism, and learn what it is, and BE what they say they are. They are not cool right now.
ReplyDelete@ Everyone -- I never once expect anyone to wish me a happy or merry or blessed anything. I am talking of myself only. If I don't know your path, I will wish you a Merry Christmas. To me it has deep meaning. If you wish me a happy holiday back, or a blessed yule -- as long as you don't tell me to eff off, LOL!! -- that makes my day. If you get insulted, I am sorry. I am not intending to insult you.
@ reborninfire -- I WAS born into Catholicism but, as most young adults do if they want a path to follow, I studied all other and studied my own to see why I was taught what I was taught. I am almost 60 years old now, chose to stay Catholic and never looked back. Over the years I've been very close with people of all paths including Jewish and even one published Wiccan high priestess, who unfortunately passed away. When she was dying I asked if she minded that I pray for her since that was the only way I knew and she said that even though she didn't believe, she welcomed my prayers and thanked me. We had many long talks on our different faiths and I miss her dearly. Oh and she would always wish me a Merry Christmas and I would wish her a Blessed Yule. Because we knew what path each other followed.
@ Kamalawolf -- Again -- my written words tend not to come out right. When I said they no longer believe in God -- I think I had an upper case "G" which to me is the Christian and Jewish God -- singilar (or Trinity, if you believe in the Trinity). I know you believe in many gods and that, to me is lower case 'g'. I didn't make that distinction. Sorry. Also I kind of believe all those gods of the Green and Roman and Egyptian times (which I studied and found fascinating) did (and maybe do) exist. Which would make me a bad Christian, I guess. I just don't worship them.
And any of you who want to call me names, and say I'm a bad Christian...go for it. I feel that I am very tolerant -- I actually don't like that word because it sounds like I'm right and the other person is wrong and I don't believe that for a second. I am not one of those people who think everyone but me is going to hell. I believe that people of ALL paths, no matter pagan or Christian or Athiest or anywhere inbetween -- we're all going to a good place if we live the best life we can. So go ahead and tell me how horrible I am. I just hate this crap every year. Let me have my Christmas in peace is all I'm asking.
Oh and to whoever said about taking Christ out of Christmas -- the only people doing that are the Christians who make it more material than religious.
Sorry about the novel. I tried to answer everyone and I'm trying to let you all know that I'm not on a tirade, nor am I angry ... just a little frustrated. :)
Dear Rosie- The "Christmas Tree' is not a Christian symbol. It's an old Germanic PAGAN symbol. The SOLSTICE tree was an evergreen that was kept outside and decorated with presents left under it for the land wights and gods. The tree wasn't brought inside until the time where Rome tried to convert the pagans into Christians, and the use of the solstice tree was banned. The tree was brought inside by those who still wanted to have one, but had converted. Or by those who just wouldn't convert but didn't want to be killed for having one. Oh and Yule? It's not just one day, it's actually 12 days. From the first day of winter solstice until January 1st or 2nd. You Catholics need to stop taking credit for holidays and traditions that were around long before Christ ever thought of being born. Please, if you are truly Christian, respect those of other faiths as you would want to be respected. Ya know, the Golden Rule? And remember, your religion is the YOUNGEST religion in history, full of rituals and borrowed traditions, twisted around to make you feel better about celebrating them. And to clear it up a bit, the last bit was for all Christians who end up posting, not just Rosie.
ReplyDeleteDear Unknown, Please don't presume I am stupid just because our paths differ. And we live in modern times and most of us know the roots of our religion if we care to. I studied mine before making my final choice. I know the good and I know the bad. And I am rooted enough in my faith that I don't need to defend it. And I'm not expecting you to defend yours. The conversation is about whether or not people get offended by sincere wishes for a holiday. I don't get offended unless I think it's condescending and then there's nothing I can do about it and pretend I don't care.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't want to celebrate Christmas then you have that right, by the way. Don't bring your kids to see Santa and don't put up a Christmas tree and don't buy presents. I don't remember if Yule is a gift giving occasion but if it wasn't, then don't spend your money. You have that right. I'm NOT telling you that you have to not have your Yule traditions. And I am angry now because you're very nasty. Just like Christians who put people off Christianity by their nasty condescending attitudes -- you can put people off of paganism by yours.
We in America worship money as our God nowadays and as a result I have started wishing people a Merry Hallow-Thank-Mas... as it has become for all intents and purposes. I suppose that might offend some anti-capitalists and communists. Have to offer my sincere apologies when those folks speak up.
ReplyDelete@ Chef Archer -- ROFLMAO!! Sadly you're probably right. Which makes this entire thread kind of silly. *bowing down to the money god* LOL!!
ReplyDeleteI am a Pagan and if I am honest I "do" get offended when people wish me a Happy Christmas, for that matter I find it offensive when people say "God Bless" to me as well. To me it feels like they are assuming that I am a Christian.
ReplyDeleteTo those who do wish me a happy Christmas I usually tell them "sorry I dont celebrate Christmas" and leave it at that. At this time of year I usually say Happy Holidays or seasons greetings ande on the rare occasion I send a card I always write "have a Cool Yule" or "Happy Yule".
Rosie, I must say that after reading this whole thread for the first time this morning, I conclude that people felt like commenting on yours the most. I think that that is because your original post (and subsequent ones, actually) sounds offensive. And if I may say one more thing, taking offense is the flip side of that. I hope you will take my comment in the spirit in which it was intended ---- LOVE.
ReplyDeleteI hate to add one more thing to Rosie's initial comment because it is not fair that she should feel attacked. However, it is important to note that there are many years in which Chanukah and Christmas coincide (not surprisingly since they are both related to the solstice- whether people choose to admit it or not).
ReplyDeleteRosie, earlier you made this comment, "I welcome sincere greetings. What makes you think I don't? I said that before. But happy holidays is patronizing to me." Now let's cut the fat. "I welcome sincere greetings...But happy holidays is patronizing to me."
ReplyDelete"Happy Holidays" IS a sincere greeting. It is a greeting that sincerely wishes you well and doesn't seek to assume what you may or may not celebrate in December. That's been the whole point of this article.
I admire that you will say the appropriate greeting to people that you know, but using Merry Christmas to strangers because it's important to YOU is actually a far more accurate example of a patronizing greeting. What you have actually explained in your comments is that a stranger does not command the respect of a friend in your view. A stranger must ultimately accept you for having your beliefs first, rather than you accepting that you have no way of knowing their beliefs.
Understand that a stranger has no way of knowing your thought patterns behind you wishing them a Merry Christmas, either. Even knowing them, they can easily be seen as fundamentally flawed. Wishing someone you don't know Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings is not patronizing, it is respectful. If nothing else, I hope you will understand that it is also respectful to you, not patronizing.
Sorry, I have no idea why my name is coming up like that. It's supposed to be "Vocaltones"
ReplyDeleteWhile I am not religious, I am very spiritual, and I find the words "Merry Christmas" sound very hollow coming from my lips. To me Christmas is a time of families and gatherings and friendship, and I love it all. But I find most people I encounter are wishing everyone happy or merry whatever while they are stressed and tired and grumpy after worshiping in the church of Walmart. Christmas has become a huge commercial extravaganza that leaves people exhausted. Many non-believes practice the fine art of shopping, wrapping and giving, without giving much thought to "why". The parking lots to the bars and restaurants and shopping malls are always full. The churches, less so. Children are more concerned about what Santa will bring them than the story of the birth of Christ. To all who celebrate this Holiday Season, I wish you peace, happiness and joy. To all who don't, I wish you peace, happiness and joy. <3
ReplyDelete"When it comes right down to it, shouldn't our wishes be determined by the other person's tradition?"
ReplyDeleteLast time I looked, Jews don't walk around wearing the Star of David patch for easy identification. Nor do other various religions announce themselves to each passing stranger. As well intentioned as the thought is, it's impossible to follow through with. Blessings, or warm greetings, should be accepted in any form in which they are sent ... as best wishes from the heart. So if somebody wishes you a "Merry Christmas", then smile in acceptance to those best wishes and return with the same. Best wishes from the heart. Who cares about the words in which they arrive?
To Lea.... Well said!!!
ReplyDeleteToday I thought of this conversation. I belong to a group who marched in a Christmas parade a few hours ago. It is called a Christmas parade. Not a holiday parade. This was that town's 40th annual Christmas parade.
ReplyDeleteWhy did I think of this conversation? Because the group I was with -- there were only two Catholics that I know of, myself and one of the others; a Jewish girl; four or five that I have no clue about; and probably 20-25 pagans -- a few that are pagan from birth. This is an amazing group of people. The other Catholic and I are the oldest of the group and the rest go down to the youngest being probably 18.
Not a single person in that group ever took offense to me saying Merry Christmas (because I have accidentally said it without thinking) and they just wish me a Blessed Yule right back. And the Jewish girl doesn't care at all. And all of them would think the original article and this entire conversation, including my part, is silly.
So I'm done here -- to those who celebrate Christmas -- Merry Christmas. To those that celebrate Yule -- please have a Blessed Yule. To everyone else -- Happy Holidays. I hope all of us are blessed by whatever god or goddess we pray to and that 2012 is wonderous year for all.
I thoroughly enjoyed both the post and the discussion. My background and path are eclectic, and I won't bore you with details. I also caught some of the historical hiccups in the original post, but I still appreciate the message it was meant to send.
ReplyDeleteIn the dark time of the year, we as social creatures need loving interaction to stay healthy and sane. If you offer me a sincere wish for my happiness this time of year I will gladly accept in the spirit which it is given.
Well, I am a Christian. Yet I don't "do" Christmas in any form. In fact, I don't really recognize most holidays at all. In fact, I am part of a growing number of "Christians" that recognize this. I am not Catholic. I am not pagan. So why celebrate? My Bible tells me to flee the empty and vain traditions of man, so that is what I try to do. As a Follower of Jesus ( I prefer this term over "Christian" as much of Christianity IS actually pagan), I have been set FREE from dependance on rituals and whatnot. :) But hey, I fully understand that NOT EVERYONE views things as I do and I am respectful of that . .. .
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand it *is* a federal holiday and in many families a secular tradition too. So while I am not a xtian and I agree that respect is tremendously important I don't share the opinion that wishing a Pagan the generic "merry christmas" dishonors their right to worship the way they please. Of course if you know it bothers someone it's more caring to recognize their tradition. Perhaps we should lobby for a winter holiday which would be more respectful of everyone's freedom of religion.
ReplyDeleteWe all manage to greet each other the rest of the year round. How about, "Hi," or "Thank you," or "Have a nice day," (we all have days)? If it causes this much upheaval, just don't mention the season. I don't. I'm a deist and I celebrate no holidays. And I have yet to offend anybody.
ReplyDeleteI love this thread. I am moved to add my input. Most people I know celebrate x-mas.
ReplyDeleteThe distinction between Christmas and x-mas, from what I have seen in the past 30 years, in my personal life is...One is religious while the other is
1. Time off from work and school.
2. An extra abundance of sweets and cookies.
3. Bright beautiful decorations everywhere.
4. Peace and goodwill towards humanity.
5. Shopping galore. Presents for everyone, those you wish to gift along with those you wish you could not gift and not feel guilty. But end up gifting anyways. Putting yourself in debt for several months just to purchase a sense of belonging in the community for you at work and your kids in school, and a bit of happiness for the month (seems like two months the last few years) of x-mas. This is not a holy day for anyone I know who celebrates this way. It is a joyous month. When Christ is mentioned it elicits fake smiles and later eye rolling.
Most people I know, have no holy day in December. They have no religion. Just a small sense of spirituality that does not get practiced in any form.
In this group of people, the "Merry Christmas" greeting is loved and means peace and goodwill. No religious meaning intended on their part.
Good one, Unknown!
ReplyDeleteAs I just found this blog, a very late post. Very interesting thread. For many years I balked at holiday cards that said "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" because, after all, I celebrate Christmas (a fairly secular version these days), and it felt weird to be so generic. But then, as I got older, and my card list expanded to include people of many different faiths (and one or two with none in particular), I gave my audience more consideration. "Happy Holidays" is no longer so offensive to me, and I'll send "Peace on Earth" - on which I think EVERYONE can agree, or a warmer verision of "Season's Greetings" which is "Celebrate the Season." I love that one. It could mean Christmas, Chanukah, Solstice - anything you want it to mean. Also, last year, I sent one that said "May your holiday Be Filled with the gift of family and friends" - and then personalized the greeting if I knew what people celebrated.
ReplyDeleteAnd if it's a live encounter, I take the time to ask what people are celebrating. People are always touched by the gesture of taking an interest.
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